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Child Welfare Open Space Meet Up - Shared screen with speaker view
Elizabeth Henderson, SCAO-CWS
If you did not receive an email with documents for today’s meet-up, please email Kate McPherson at McphersonK@courts.mi.gov to request a copy. Thank you!
Timothy Quinnell
Anyone know if the free 40 minutes on Zoom are cumulative or per-meeting?
Gregg Iddings
per meeting
Justin Wilson
It is per meeting. You can restart a new 40 minutes immediately
David Meyers, California Dependency Legal Services
Yes, per meeting. And if it's only two people on Zoom, there's no time limitation.
Elizabeth Henderson, SCAO-CWS
To respond to all attendees so everyone can see, click the drop down arrow after "To" in the chat box and select, "All panelists and attendees". Thanks!
Vivek Sankaran
In In re Brock, the Michigan Supreme Court said there is no right to confrontation in child protective proceedings
Vivek Sankaran
You can appeal interlocutory decisions via an Application for Leave to Appeal
Nichole Smithson
What about the potential coaching of witnesses?
Vivek Sankaran
You can rename yourself on Zoom.
Melissa Kelleigh
Does anyone have a statute or case citation for filing a motion for no reasonable efforts in MI?
Lauren Rogers
We have played around with Zoom and the host cannot see or hear within the breakout room. But the host can join/appear in the breakout room without warning. Once the host joins they can see/hear everything in the breakout room.
Vivek Sankaran
The reasonable efforts requirement is contained in MCL 712A.19a(4). You can cite the legal requirement that DHHS must make such efforts. In In re Hicks-Brown, the Michigan Supreme Court held that reasonable efforts must be made before the court can terminate parental rights.
Antonio Carlesimo
Why are reasonable efforts not required when DHHS decides to file an original PC petition where the aggravating circumstances listed in the statute are not present..
Marc shreeman
Wayne County is liberally utilizing stipulated orders
Evelyn Calogero
DHHS policies contain information on making reasonable efforts PSM 714-2 PSM 715-2 and all through Foster Care Manual. Policies are at:
Evelyn Calogero
Vivek Sankaran
@Anthony Carlesimo, you raise an issue that is a tension in the law. Whether DHHS can file an original petition to TPR in non-aggravating circumstance cases and seek TPR without making reasonable efforts.
Evelyn Calogero
We could do an entire webinar on reasonable efforts
Onjel Benson
A webinar on reasonable efforts sounds very good.
Antonio Carlesimo
The case law that permits this flies in the face of the unambiguous language in the statute.
Vivek Sankaran
@Cecilia, I think if there are documented safety concerns, that might be a reason to restrict in person contact. But it would need to be documented.
Evelyn Calogero
Secondary trauma -- burnout -- among attorneys in this line of work is real. Compassion exhaustion.
Michael David Adams
In this time of restricted communication, one of the glaring obstacles for me is interaction and coordination between a LGAL appointed to represent a parent and the attorney for the parent. Who has the primary responsibility regarding advocacy for the parent?
Christina Walsh
our court doesn't even let an LGAL for a parent participate in the hearing. Everything goes through the parent's attorney...
Onjel Benson
Yes. The parent's GAL is not a lawyer guardian ad litem in the court where I do my work, for the most part. As such, advocacy rests largely with the primary attorney.
Michael David Adams
So, often times, the LGAL for the parent has the best relationship with the parent and is a better advocate. I know that every court handles this differently, often courts in the same circuit. I wish there were some consensus.
Karen Bunker
once a substantial risk of harm has been diminished, kids should be returned home. As an LGAL, I argue this often. Do not wait until the end of the case to return children. to do so is punitive to the parents and to the child.
Evelyn Calogero
Which counties appoint LGALS for parents??
Marc shreeman
The Child Study Clinic Director recommends going for a beer with colleagues for self care
Michael David Adams
Kent County- very often.
Nichole Smithson
why would they appoint an LGAL for a parent? I understand why they would appoint a GAL for a parent, but not a LGAL
Karen Bunker
LGALs also need to keep in constant contact with IL kids. Do they have food. Are they staying safe? Do they have everything that they need? Are they healthy? Are they practicing social distancing? are all their scripts filled?
Karen Bunker
Children are traumatized by removal. I have child clients who, during the pandemic, worries about their parents health. For this reason, I have cases in which the child has daily video contact with the parents.
Karen Bunker
As to safety first, it has been my experience that parents have been very understanding and, in-fact, concerned about the safety of their children.
Vivek Sankaran
Please share any tips you have about what we all should be doing right now. Thanks.
S. Joy Gaines
Reaching out to everyone in SIL - food, social distancing, masks, EBT card, safe place to stay, cleaning supplies
S. Joy Gaines
Some of the parent education agencies have guidelines and suggestions to make video time meaningful - have they been shared with all the parents, not just the ones involved with that agency.
Onjel Benson
I have a client who has no mask and does not seem to have the ability to make one. Is this something MIDHHS is going to supply to parents so they can facilitate in-person visitation?
Thomasine Jefferson
Karen Bunker
Sibling visits - play games. same with parents. LGAL visits, if old enough, verify that they are alone in the room before beginning the meeting
Marc shreeman
We need to be able to talk to our clients privately during a hearing- like whispering in their ear
S. Joy Gaines
Every time I get information something about free - free food, free cleaning supplies, free masks, etc. I send it to every parent and every youth in SIL.
David Meyers, California Dependency Legal Services
@Onjel: Wouldn't that be a reasonable effort?
Thomasine Jefferson
Thomasine Jefferson--I agree Marc. please work on setting that up for Wayne County. Thanks
Onjel Benson
I think it could be, yes. That might be up to the Court to decide in the long run of course.
S. Joy Gaines
Before the Zoom hearing, I ask my client to have his/her cell nearby so that we can text during the hearing any questions, information, etc.
Onjel Benson
It is something to bring up at hearings. Thank you David.
David Meyers, California Dependency Legal Services
Thank you all for all you are doing!
Marc shreeman
Our clients usually have only one devise
Nichole Smithson
I agree Marc!
Lauren Rogers
Thank you all.
Karen Bunker
working harder and longer hours now than before Covid.
Onjel Benson
Thank you this was very informative!
Antonio Carlesimo
Thnak you